Dealing With Dorsey and WSU

By Bob Geiger

On September 21, Professor Bryan Dorsey, Associate Professor and Coordinator of Urban and Regional Planning at WSU, wrote an article entitled: “Streetcar deemed most appropriate transit system for Ogden." His article was meant to serve as an objective analysis of a recent UTA transit study. The following are the facts we glean from Professor Dorsey’s article:

1) The highest overall ranked transit system, or the “primary” recommendation from the study was the streetcar.

2) Streetcars would be consistent with efforts to revitalize the city’s historic districts.

3) A Streetcar would offer about 600,000 annual new rides.

4) Cost per new ride for the Street Car is $18.

5) Cost for the Street Car is $100 million.

6) Street Car eligible for Federal Funding from the Federal Transit Authority.

7) WSU Students and Faculty would likely be able to ride for Free.

8) “Secondary” recommendation was for a bus rapid transit (modified bus).

9) Annual cost for Bus Rapid Transit is only $22 million.

10) Urban Gondola system would cost about $50 million.

11) Consultants recommended the two practical systems (Bus Rapid Transit and Street Car), but made no recommendation for the gondola.

12) Possible advantages of the gondola – Tourism

13) Gondola would be comparatively slower.

14) Gondola would have much higher operating costs.

15) Gondola would only have annual new rides of 275,000

16) Gondola cost per new ride would be $28.

17) Gondola would not be eligible for federal funding.

Recently, Professors at WSU attended a meeting with all of the mayors and commissioners in the area. The professors made comments that claimed that WSU was not in support of the Gondola in an effort to sway the vote. It did not work, the vote was 15-1 in favor of the concept of the Ogden-city Gondola. The problem created however, was that Ann Millner, President of WSU, has made no public statements in support of, or in opposition to, the Gondola. This leaves the WSU administration in a difficult situation with the community. Either they are using professors as an “unofficial” go-between in order to oppose the Gondola without getting their hands dirty, or WSU administrators are incapable of ensuring that the public policy of WSU is not driven and dictated by irresponsible professors.

In comes Professor Dorsey, on 6 October to set the record straight for the Student Leadership of WSU with regard to the Gondola and the UTA study. This time, his statements were much more objective, although he attempted at the beginning of his speech to draw an indirect correlation between VIOLENCE and the Gondola by stating that poverty is a form of violence and the Gondola does not serve the poor. The following are the facts we glean from Professor Dorsey’s presentation:

1) Ridership – The Street Car took first place. The Gondola took second place.

2) System Flexibility – The Street Car too first place. The Gondola took second place.

3) Visible Prewsence – The Street Car, Bus Rapid Transit II, and the Gondola all tied for first place.

4) Frequency – The Gondola took first place. The Street Car took second place.

5) Travel Time – The Bus Rapid Transit II too first place3. The Street Car took Second Place.

6) Economic Development (Uniqueness) – The Gondola took first place. The Street Car took Second Place.

7) Connection to CBD (Stops) – The Two bus systems took first and second place.

8) Overall – Street Car took first place. Gondola took Second place.

9) Bus rapid transit and Street Car were the recommended vehicles by the UTA.

10) Professor Dorsey would like to see WSU, Business, Government and UTA work closely together on defining effective transit for our community.

11) Professor Dorsey would like to see if the bus system would work better if we stopped calling it a Bus, painted the buses in a “coo” way, and gave neat names to the bus routes and bus stops.

12) Professor Dorsey would agree with the Gondola if it could be proven to him that it makes sense.

13) Gondola would cost $45 million.

14) Light Rail would Cost over $200 million and was removed from the study due to its cost.

15) Street Car would cost $100 million.

16) Cost was not included in the ranking structure for the Gondola, Street Car and Bus Rapid Transit systems.

17) The Street Car would take up traffic lanes.

Professors Dorsey’s presentation prompted some questions from the audience that helped draw out some additional facts:

Question 1: (Dustin Chapman – Junior WSU who attended the UTA study presentation.) With the Gondola being ranked in the top on almost all factors, and being ranked #2 overall, why was the Gondola not recommended by the UTA?

Answer 1: Professor Dorsey’s original answer was that the Gondola was not cost effective.

Question 1a: Why is the Street Car recommended then, it costs $100 million?

Answer 1a: Good Question.

FINAL ANSWER: Dustin Chapman (Attendee at the UTA meeting when the study was originally presented) - The reason that the Gondola was not recommended was because of its uniqueness. In order to get federal funding, you have to show how your project fits into the Federal parameters for mass transit. There are not very many proof sources in the US for Gondolas, so it would be difficult for the Federal Government digest the data on the Gondola. It would be easier to show the bus systems and the street car systems. The Gondola is eligible for federal transit funding, it is just less likely to receive it.

Statement 1: (Dave Hardman – President of Chamber of Commerce) The Gondola project that Ogden is working on is a $20 million project that runs between downtown Ogden, to WSU, to a resort in Malan’s basin. At this time, there is no plans for it to go to Snowbasin.

Statement 2: (Jim West – Senior at WSU) The UTA study showed that the Federal funding, for which the Bus Rapid Transit and the Street Car were the recommended vehicles to use in pursuit of, would maybe come 10-15 years from now.

Statement 3: (Bob Geiger – Handout) Yes the Gondola is slower, but its high frequency makes it competitive. If you get on the gondola and the street car at the same time, you would get to your destination faster with the street car. However, because the gondola comes around every 15-30 seconds, if you missed the last street car, you would have to wait 10 minutes. If you missed the last Gondola, you would have to wait 15 seconds. While you waited for the next street car, you could travel to your destination in a gondola.

Statement 4: (Dave Hardman – President of Chamber of Commerce) The cost of the street car makes it prohibitive to the community. The cost of the Gondola is low enough that it can be funded predominantly with private funds and can be built in the next few years.

Statement 5: (Dave Hardman – President of Chamber of Commerce) The Gondola makes our community and WSU unique to the world. No other mode of transportation studied provides that.

Statement 6: (Dave Hardman – President of Chamber of Commerce) The Gondola is already brining businesses to our downtown area.

Summary: From a transit perspective, the Gondola was ranked second, but not recommended in the pursuit of federal funding due to its unique nature. Street Car is cost prohibitive at $100 million, and would require significant federal support that would maybe come 10-15 years from now. Gondola is already brining businesses to this community, is proven by the study to create the greatest level of uniqueness for our community and can be built in the near future.

Compare the totality of the information above with the information gleaned from Professor Doresey’s original analysis of the study, and you’ll find it lacking in objectivity and completeness. You’ll find that after the political environment demanded responsibility and objectivity from WSU professors, Professor Dorsey became more objective in his presentation to the students. And you’ll find that according to the study and the immediate affects that the Gondola has already had on Ogden’s business community, the Gondola should be pursued; or at the very least, placed firmly at the Top of Professor Dorsey’s options list for transit systems in Ogden.

Just because the Federal Government may not get it, doesn’t mean it’s a bad idea.

A WSU Sign Post article on the WSU campus said that a heated argument broke out and that Professor Dorsey had to be escorted out of the room by the police. This “in fact” did not happen. No heated argument broke out. Professor Dorsey was not escorted from the room. Apparently WSU students are nervous about situations that pose challenging questions to their professors. Situation such as these feel “hostile” to them. To average observer, the situation was calm but academically challenging.

Editor's Note: I'm going to add that I attended the October 6, 2005 WSU event myself, and the facts that Mr. Geiger recite regarding the event are accurate according to my own recollection. As to the Signpost's allegation of "heated argument" and a "police escort," I definitely saw none of that. The event was quite well-behaved, actually, in my opinion, especially for a college campus event. I lingered in the hallway outside the auditorium for about 15 minutes after the event, chatting with other attendees; and I witnessed no disruption or confusion at all.

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