Bob G.'s Question and Answer Session

To all those interested -

I don't blame Gene Sessions and others for not trusting Bob Geiger. Having been slandered by Bob back in the fall, I encouraged him at a public gathering to speak truthfully without making slanderous remarks, so I will refrain, but with one further suggestion: if Bob is interested in "shaking hands" with his neighbors, he might start with apologies. I debated replying to this e-mail, but I cannot allow fellow Ogden residents to be mislead.

Here is where my well meaning neighbor, Bob Geiger fails to reply to questions accurately: Question #1, paragraph 2 makes mention of the financial value of WSU land. Upon request, I can provide anyone interested with a copy of a research article that documents the economic value of open space and parks (that would be without luxury homes or gondolas interspersed).

I'm not sure what Bob means by a WSU "birth right," but I can tell you that WSU has a specific mission statement that refers to educational goals. The state owned land above WSU is to be used for educational purposes, not resort development. I am aware that WSU is a business and needs to retain a profit, but dorms to attract students interested in skiing do not mesh well with our educational goals. The land does however provide students with access to a unique and pristine alpine environment still untarnished by resort development, the dollar value of which may be unquantifiable. Interesting that Bob mentions the US Forest Service, but neglects to mention that the USFS land management plans call for NO new ski resort developments in the Northern Wasatch.

Bob's reply to question #6 is also laden with false information. A streetcar system COULD be developed at less than half the cost mentioned (under $50 million, not $100 million). Second, there is federal money now available that would pay as much as 80% of the cost of a streetcar system. The system COULD be developed in 8 to 10 years. Though it remains uncertain that the streetcar is the most appropriate system for the connection between Ogden's downtown and the university, it is clear that an urban gondola is not a practical form of mass transit.

Keep up the good debate, and keep it civil.

Happy Easter to all -

Bryan Dorsey
WSU Professor of Geography, Urban and Regional Planning Program
coordinator
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>>>> from "Bob Geiger" [via email] 04/15/06 2:57 PM >>>
Fellow Ogdenites,

I recently received a batch of questions from a fellow citizen who seems very interested in Asking Questions. As a fellow citizen, I took the time to answer his questions. Hopefully he or she will be as interested in getting answers as he or she is in asking questions.

From one citizen to another...see below...

SMARTGROWTH OGDEN
ASK QUESTIONS!!!

LIFT OGDEN
GET ANSWERS!!!

We can economically rejuvenate Ogden City! We can do it in a way that the entire city can benefit! We can do it in a way that does not sacrifice the things we love most about living here.

I love the idea of a gondola for Ogden, but I do indeed have some questions:

1) Is the Golf Course and Weber State land going to be sold for anything NEAR fair market value for such valuable land?

It is my understanding that the land must be sold for fair market value. The city cannot give it away. Further, from a financial standpoint, we must take into consideration the value of the overall package to the city. Maybe someone out there would be willing to pay more for the land than Chris Peterson and then continue to run it as it is currently being run---$320,000 loss to the new owner rather than the to Ogden, City. However, his one-time purchase will provide Ogden city with a single influx of money. Chris Peterson's plans will generate a significant tax benefit to the city while still offering the city fair market value for the course. The current discounted value of Chris Peterson's future payment streams to the city in the form of taxes, plus the fair market value that he will pay to the city, plus the other economic investments that will come in response to Chris's investment are what we need to consider here. I'd be interested to meet the buyer who will pay the current discounted value of Chris Peterson's perpetual $5,000,000 tax stream to the city, plus the fair market price that he is going to pay for the land, plus a very modest estimate of future investments that would accommodate Chris's investment and then sit on the land as it is currently being used, losing $320,000 per year.

As to the WSU land....if it is never to be built on or used....then what financial value does it have? It is not the birthright of WSU to be serve the role of the Forest Service. Their birth right is attracting students to their school and educating them. Chris Peterson's offer to WSU is a financial one that can help them fulfill their true birth right.

2) Will the gondola stop at enough places to make it useful public transportation or will it serve as an "express" to Weber State so that Chris' skiers won't be delayed?

This is a question that is still being considered. One thing to think about however is that it may be very beneficial to the city to build a gondola that links the key jewels of Ogden together without a significant number of stops, thus providing a fairly uninterrupted flow of traffic from the major population centers of the Wasatch Front and S.L.C. International Airport directly to downtown Ogden, Weber State, or a mountain resort. The Bus system could then link from these strategic nodes and move people just a few blocks to grandma's house or the like. The economic engine that is thus created, could provide future financial options for additional mass transit plans. The Gondola provides a good transition from a city with very little business to one that is thriving and can fund additional projects.

3) After the deal for discounted golf for Ogdenites ends, what happens to those public golfers then? City councils can be lobbied (bribed) to change zoning rather easily.

Chris Peterson has made it clear that he will keep golf prices similar to what they currently are, and I am sure that contractual agreements can be put in place to protect such interests; however, it wouldn't be the end of the world if the Golf Course could command a higher golf price. It hurts the efforts of local private golf courses who pay taxes but have to compete with a subsidized golf course that loses money. Ask Norm Steele and Kelly Woodland.

4) After we've sold the golf course and the Weber land, will we have to come up with still MORE money to build the gondola? How much more? Will we have to go into debt to build it? The exact cost of the Gondola is still being finalized.

5) What good paying jobs will this bring? Or will it be mainly more low paying service jobs? If it's only service jobs, how does that count as "economic development" for anyone but Chris?

It is important not to discount jobs simply because they don't pay what you think you should make. There are a lot of people taking the kind of jobs you reference in S.L.C. because there are none here. To think that providing an appealing place to visit, work and play for the entire population of the Wasatch Front and every Utah visitor would not generate meaningful economic development is a mistake. The speculation alone on this project has brought more companies to Ogden than have
come in the past 5 years.

6) Federal funds pay for most conventional public transportation in Utah (buses, Trax, etc.) Will they pay for most of the gondola? If so why sell the golf course? If not, wouldn't it be better to keep the golf course and let the feds pay most of the cost of something more conventional?

The Street Car is the vehicle that UTA recommends we take to the Federal overnment. It is a $100,000,000 project (current dollars). It would take 10-15 years to get the federal funding. The Federal funding would only cover half the cost of the project. The city would have to come up with the remaining $50,000,000. The city needs an economic engine to cover such a massive expenditure. That engine does not exist right now, and the mass transit mode that UTA gave the highest score for economic development was the Gondola.

7) The sale of the golf course was NOT part of Mayor Godfrey's original announcement regarding the Gondola. Are there other surprises awaiting us before the Gondola can be built?
I think so. You may be surprised to find that the renovation and restoration of some of the most important structures in Ogden depend on the realization of Chris Peterson's investment and the construction of the Gondola.

8) How can you guys be so excited about this deal if you don't know the answers to ALL of these questions?

Give me a huge government subsidy, and I'll build you a Gondola you'll never forget. Make the subsidy big enough and I'll plate the cars in gold. It isn't hard to get excited about the prospects of a $500,000,000 investment in our city when it so desperately needs one. I find in more challenging to understand how anyone would summarily dismiss the idea of such an investment before knowing all of the facts.

You said that you love the idea of a gondola, but you have some questions. You seem to be excited about this deal too. We are glad. Your sincerity is appreciated.